The blog has been idol for a couple of days, i'm waiting for news from the local seduction lair so that i can join and meet guys interested in seduction for discussions and to get me new inspiration for this blog.
I hesitated to post manipulation posts on this blog because once again i'm not sure how well this really relates to the initial part of seduction i'm more interested in, nor in the practice of it at all... but i guess it works in other parts of life so here it is i'll post it again (below)
Wednesday, November 30, 2005
Manipulation
Here are some techniques to manipulate people. If you're an analysing kind of guy you'd like to see how C&f fits in here.
Conditioning by association:
ie. How many fingers does one man have on his hands? how many on ten hands?
Give them an example of something simple that is perfectly logical, and then you can hint them to a generalization of that simple thing that may actually be more complex, and possibly not true. It's all actually a lot like a play on words. On top you might have answered 10, 100. Re-read the question and think about it if you did. (You still can be manipulated if you didn't say that :P)
Reciprocity:
This is a big one which is used in several techniques describes inside this blog.
If someone does you a favour, however small once an attachement is created, you will feel you have to pay them back.
ie. Someone proposes you nicely a sample for free, you will feel like you should by the box.
This is something you learn early on: Always return favors or you will be disliked. Of course it's easier to refuse simpler favors bud depending on the WAY it is exposed to us, we will be more or less tempted to accept/pay em back.
Other examples:
"Let me help you with your bag..."
"I dedicated my life to you..."
People respond to conditioning. Just know what social habits are learned early on, you can play with them.
Seduction note:
A good use for the second technique is for example when you get unacceptable social behavior from a chick. One thing you can do, is be absurdly obvious and let her know that Your mother taught you as a child NOT to behave like that, ie. instant rejection from the chick, you can say as part of your social ettiquette, your mom taught you to answer when asked a question nicely. They will have such an emotional surge of REMORSE, that they will be begging for your attention back. Said in a Natural way, it ALWAYS works.
Break;
Another technique, to get her attention for example, is to ask a totally irrelevant non-seduction related question. But then of course to make the jump to seduction talk you must have material ready, getting her attention though is already pretty big. This is just a dismantling of perfectly normal/well known social skills/habits.
ie. Hey, short pause, You have the time?
Hey, short pause, You have a cigarette?
the pause gives her a bit more time to feel attachement especially if done with eye contact, she will feel a sort of stress level going up as you ask.
Alright so those are the "Automatic" manipulation techniques.
More soon.
Conditioning by association:
ie. How many fingers does one man have on his hands? how many on ten hands?
Give them an example of something simple that is perfectly logical, and then you can hint them to a generalization of that simple thing that may actually be more complex, and possibly not true. It's all actually a lot like a play on words. On top you might have answered 10, 100. Re-read the question and think about it if you did. (You still can be manipulated if you didn't say that :P)
Reciprocity:
This is a big one which is used in several techniques describes inside this blog.
If someone does you a favour, however small once an attachement is created, you will feel you have to pay them back.
ie. Someone proposes you nicely a sample for free, you will feel like you should by the box.
This is something you learn early on: Always return favors or you will be disliked. Of course it's easier to refuse simpler favors bud depending on the WAY it is exposed to us, we will be more or less tempted to accept/pay em back.
Other examples:
"Let me help you with your bag..."
"I dedicated my life to you..."
People respond to conditioning. Just know what social habits are learned early on, you can play with them.
Seduction note:
A good use for the second technique is for example when you get unacceptable social behavior from a chick. One thing you can do, is be absurdly obvious and let her know that Your mother taught you as a child NOT to behave like that, ie. instant rejection from the chick, you can say as part of your social ettiquette, your mom taught you to answer when asked a question nicely. They will have such an emotional surge of REMORSE, that they will be begging for your attention back. Said in a Natural way, it ALWAYS works.
Break;
Another technique, to get her attention for example, is to ask a totally irrelevant non-seduction related question. But then of course to make the jump to seduction talk you must have material ready, getting her attention though is already pretty big. This is just a dismantling of perfectly normal/well known social skills/habits.
ie. Hey, short pause, You have the time?
Hey, short pause, You have a cigarette?
the pause gives her a bit more time to feel attachement especially if done with eye contact, she will feel a sort of stress level going up as you ask.
Alright so those are the "Automatic" manipulation techniques.
More soon.
Other aspect of manipulation in seduction.
Teasing is the most manipulative technique. Just giving her a taste of what is to come gets her hormones rushing like cray-zee, to the point where she just rapes you.
A good exemple is maybe when kissing her, don't do it immediately, just act like you're about too, look her in the eyes/lips, approach her, then move a bit last minute and start breathing on her neck. Doing that a few times will make her just jump on your lips and not letting go.
Remember that nature is so that 1 male can mate with many females continuously, where as 1 female has a 1 guy for 9 months, so she's desperate to find the right one and keep him. You're the man, you make the decisions and rules. Making a girl aware of your presence, will make her want you, as long as she feels safe wiht you. If she gets a good feeling around you, she wants to keep you to herself.
On this whole manipulation thing, i'm not going to support harrassing women, "USING" them, abusing them etc., i find it stupid, but we're all human and those women concerned are conditioned to play a game with you, therefore you must know how to handle your deck, and turn the game around to your advantage.
A good exemple is maybe when kissing her, don't do it immediately, just act like you're about too, look her in the eyes/lips, approach her, then move a bit last minute and start breathing on her neck. Doing that a few times will make her just jump on your lips and not letting go.
Remember that nature is so that 1 male can mate with many females continuously, where as 1 female has a 1 guy for 9 months, so she's desperate to find the right one and keep him. You're the man, you make the decisions and rules. Making a girl aware of your presence, will make her want you, as long as she feels safe wiht you. If she gets a good feeling around you, she wants to keep you to herself.
On this whole manipulation thing, i'm not going to support harrassing women, "USING" them, abusing them etc., i find it stupid, but we're all human and those women concerned are conditioned to play a game with you, therefore you must know how to handle your deck, and turn the game around to your advantage.
Manipulation - a bit more on the seduction aspect.
The cocky and funny is actually throwing the girl completly off, why? because she expects you to play by her rules of logic, as society has taught us to do. Giving a cocky answer in a funny way, mean you give her an answer that does apply, is innovative, and anyways she isn't expecting. The funny part makes the answer acceptable because she will be laughing.
She will understand that you live your life by your rules and will want to adapt to your rules, because you're being funny at the same time as you are cocky. You are doing her a favor by actually talking to her, she wants to pay you back. The cockyness you apply should make her understand that her opinion is irrelevant to YOU. You are God in your own world, she wants access to it, she's gotta try you harder, you're giving her a sample, she's working her way up.
She will understand that you live your life by your rules and will want to adapt to your rules, because you're being funny at the same time as you are cocky. You are doing her a favor by actually talking to her, she wants to pay you back. The cockyness you apply should make her understand that her opinion is irrelevant to YOU. You are God in your own world, she wants access to it, she's gotta try you harder, you're giving her a sample, she's working her way up.
Sunday, November 20, 2005
Realistic approach tactics
Sometimes you get the feeling you should just go ahead and talk to an attractive lady. You can really feel the chemistry, and you know that however the conversation goes, you will be comfortable in carrying it. However you do have trouble finding the "opener", and are still an AFC frustrated by paranoia of being rejected.
Personally i believe it's all about the certain state of mind you're in and the surrounding environment. And unfortunately following the method i will recommend in case both of those are actually good, a lot will depend on the reaction of the girl (my personal view is that a simple classical method, not dealing excessively with c&f is better to start a relationship the SLOW way). C&f nearly predetermines the answer you will get, since you know the effect is to sorta confuse her.
I think if you reallly feel it, you should just go for it and talk to her about the most random things. If she responds good the odds are she's interested too. Key things to keep in mind, even though this is a slow way to start the relationship, you might want to keep your discussion with her short, and get her email before you show her with body-language (looking ahead) that you've gotta go.
To practice this just go talk randomly to people (male/female) this will sort of calm down your fear of talking to random strangers. Also looking like an open talkative person helps. I don't know why but i often get random people coming to talk to me (i go out at night a couple times a week, at least once or twice people make random remarks to start short discussions.)
Personally i believe it's all about the certain state of mind you're in and the surrounding environment. And unfortunately following the method i will recommend in case both of those are actually good, a lot will depend on the reaction of the girl (my personal view is that a simple classical method, not dealing excessively with c&f is better to start a relationship the SLOW way). C&f nearly predetermines the answer you will get, since you know the effect is to sorta confuse her.
I think if you reallly feel it, you should just go for it and talk to her about the most random things. If she responds good the odds are she's interested too. Key things to keep in mind, even though this is a slow way to start the relationship, you might want to keep your discussion with her short, and get her email before you show her with body-language (looking ahead) that you've gotta go.
To practice this just go talk randomly to people (male/female) this will sort of calm down your fear of talking to random strangers. Also looking like an open talkative person helps. I don't know why but i often get random people coming to talk to me (i go out at night a couple times a week, at least once or twice people make random remarks to start short discussions.)
Sunday, November 13, 2005
Sample C&F scenarios
Here are a few cocky and funny approaches, you can try them but the responses from chix WILL VARY, that's not a probability but predeterminate. So here it is.
Y= you.
H= hot babe.
-- night club scenario (try one where the music is not TOO loud)
y: You just got lucky you win a free dance.
--
h: ugh, no thanx i'm with my friends,
y: Is this you guys' first date(if she's with her girlfriends)?
h: ugh.. or smile, and negation or jokingly positive, or even better honestly positive answer.
--
h: ugh, not interested.
y: Neither am i, i'm here to party and your personal interest are not important to me.
--
y: you look like you're having trouble getting some men anyways! i got some fine piece of meat right over there (point to random guy who you will need to quickly BEFRIEND or to your wingman). And i can read the desire in your eyes,<>
After 1-2 free dance, so that you don't go blank on her say this:
y: Ok so there goes your free dance, my rate's 20$ from now, or you just buy me a drink.
And if by then she probably will go logical on you (ie. asking your name etc.). Just give her Cocky answers: "i'm superman...", " Tarzan looking for my jane", "The version of indianna johnes!", and for age "99 years old,", "Old enough,<3>, to know not to answer a question like that".
Y= you.
H= hot babe.
-- night club scenario (try one where the music is not TOO loud)
y: You just got lucky you win a free dance.
--
h: ugh, no thanx i'm with my friends,
y: Is this you guys' first date(if she's with her girlfriends)?
h: ugh.. or smile, and negation or jokingly positive, or even better honestly positive answer.
--
h: ugh, not interested.
y: Neither am i, i'm here to party and your personal interest are not important to me.
--
y: you look like you're having trouble getting some men anyways! i got some fine piece of meat right over there (point to random guy who you will need to quickly BEFRIEND or to your wingman). And i can read the desire in your eyes,<>
After 1-2 free dance, so that you don't go blank on her say this:
y: Ok so there goes your free dance, my rate's 20$ from now, or you just buy me a drink.
And if by then she probably will go logical on you (ie. asking your name etc.). Just give her Cocky answers: "i'm superman...", " Tarzan looking for my jane", "The
Saturday, November 12, 2005
Improving the odds.
*ATTENTION: i do not say here that it matters much what you look like. Because frankly if you're a damn good seductor you could look like a piece of shit on legs with arms and still attract chicks. It is however interesting to know the following*
We've all heard the *I don't care how he looks, what is essential is his personality* bull shit. And although that is true, very much so in seduction, and it is in fact what most seduction techniques are based on, look does improve your initial odds.
What is look? well if you read my past articles on what kind of guy looks good, etc. you'll get a hint, here i'll talk about how to improve on your look, i'll start off with the obvious, and start talking of a few exercises that can help you look better with Facial exercises. A sort of Facelift through exercises.
Exercising is good for your health in moderation, and it makes you look healthy. When you look healthy you look attractive.
Exercising also makes you look taller when you do it correctly with that in mind. A class mate of mine which was an avid exercise buff ended up growing (from what i've been told and noticed) about 15 centimeters in less than 2.5 years, he was about 17 years old when he started and is still growing, but from what i've heard he was scrawny short kid before i came, now he's about 6'2 and extremely lean muscular like last time i saw him. He signed up to a standard workout program at the YMCA and started playing around and figuring it out by himself.
Of course this example is idealistic and most people want results immediately. I can tell you when i started working out; i received positive feedback and comments on muscular growth and cut (even if subtle) after no longer than 3 months. I however was discouraged and gave up by 6 month, it all left hereafter. That was a bad move.
Another Dramatic change i noticed was in a young man who was excessively athletic, younger he had big round cheeks but as he started out running and playing soccer, and such sports he lost his cheeks had a wonderful cut face, muscular not scrawny-bony like. That's another success story, he however did not "workout" and remained pretty slim.
So to sum up: I think running probably does wonders in weight loss, training does the same in muscle gain. A combination of both does for a complete re-shape of your body. Try it. Organize yourself and do not give up.
Finally i'd like to talk about facial muscle, having the "cute" smile and dominant over-look. Although you do inherit your eyes, and maybe frown marks on your forehead, the jaw, the mobile part of your face is in your complete control.
If we look at bradd pitt, george clooney, Ashton Kutcher. Bref, all those good looking guys, they have a very muscular jaw and smile. There's of course the heart i talk about in the other article and a lean, clean look.
I'm going to recommend you check this out although you do what you want concerning the purchase of this item, i will say that the concept is quite ingenious, you can muscle your face up using this tool, helping your muscles to pull your face lean, cut the fat and make you look sharp!
Other exercises, that i recommend, that are purely unscientific but may help:
We've all heard the *I don't care how he looks, what is essential is his personality* bull shit. And although that is true, very much so in seduction, and it is in fact what most seduction techniques are based on, look does improve your initial odds.
What is look? well if you read my past articles on what kind of guy looks good, etc. you'll get a hint, here i'll talk about how to improve on your look, i'll start off with the obvious, and start talking of a few exercises that can help you look better with Facial exercises. A sort of Facelift through exercises.
Exercising is good for your health in moderation, and it makes you look healthy. When you look healthy you look attractive.
Exercising also makes you look taller when you do it correctly with that in mind. A class mate of mine which was an avid exercise buff ended up growing (from what i've been told and noticed) about 15 centimeters in less than 2.5 years, he was about 17 years old when he started and is still growing, but from what i've heard he was scrawny short kid before i came, now he's about 6'2 and extremely lean muscular like last time i saw him. He signed up to a standard workout program at the YMCA and started playing around and figuring it out by himself.
Of course this example is idealistic and most people want results immediately. I can tell you when i started working out; i received positive feedback and comments on muscular growth and cut (even if subtle) after no longer than 3 months. I however was discouraged and gave up by 6 month, it all left hereafter. That was a bad move.
Another Dramatic change i noticed was in a young man who was excessively athletic, younger he had big round cheeks but as he started out running and playing soccer, and such sports he lost his cheeks had a wonderful cut face, muscular not scrawny-bony like. That's another success story, he however did not "workout" and remained pretty slim.
So to sum up: I think running probably does wonders in weight loss, training does the same in muscle gain. A combination of both does for a complete re-shape of your body. Try it. Organize yourself and do not give up.
Finally i'd like to talk about facial muscle, having the "cute" smile and dominant over-look. Although you do inherit your eyes, and maybe frown marks on your forehead, the jaw, the mobile part of your face is in your complete control.
If we look at bradd pitt, george clooney, Ashton Kutcher. Bref, all those good looking guys, they have a very muscular jaw and smile. There's of course the heart i talk about in the other article and a lean, clean look.
I'm going to recommend you check this out although you do what you want concerning the purchase of this item, i will say that the concept is quite ingenious, you can muscle your face up using this tool, helping your muscles to pull your face lean, cut the fat and make you look sharp!
Other exercises, that i recommend, that are purely unscientific but may help:
- Smile often, a lot, even if your alone at home just to stretch your face out a bit, exercise those muscles
- chew your meat 30 times
- chew gum!
- eat apples?! in most movies i recall with brad pitt he's eating an apple...go figure that one out but heh, why not give it a try. Fruits are healthy anyways.
- Put your thumbs at the back of your molars and try to close your mouth from all directions, pulling towards the outside with your thumbs (like you're trying to split your cheeks apart)
- Run a lot. That does make you loose fat everywhere.
Sunday, November 06, 2005
On attraction, to seduction.
As an avid consumer of seduction websites and products for the past several months, one thing i can say is that most of the things i was supposed to learn from those I already knew or was applying but with the wrong people!
Concerning the behavior to have in a seduction scenario, the pimp attitude, what to say, or more generally, who to be and how to do it. One of the best ways to sum up the methods and the content learned after months of self mentoring is to quote my personal selection of best tips.
Cited then explained:
(I) Be yourself, as in be who you are at home with everyone.
Concerning the behavior to have in a seduction scenario, the pimp attitude, what to say, or more generally, who to be and how to do it. One of the best ways to sum up the methods and the content learned after months of self mentoring is to quote my personal selection of best tips.
Cited then explained:
(I) Be yourself, as in be who you are at home with everyone.
- Don't force yourself to have a certain attitude decided by the surrounding crowd: you always keep the same face, body, physical identity that goes so well with that personality you've developped all yourlife in your household.
- Be that same "rebel" person you are with your mom, siblings, and all your family, or should have been when you reached a certain stage of puberty even OUTSIDE of the household.
- The previous applies to the attitude you'd have with a wife, etc. visualize!
- If you're not mature enough within your household, with your family, then you will have troubles outside of that household and will need to make an extra effort of ACTING as another personality. That is not fresh.
- Masculinity is what turns girls on, in prehistoric times a woman needed a man to provide food, a shelter, and protection for her and her kids because she could not do that while taking care of her kids, this is all genetically programmed. Just like men want a beautiful, healthy women to carry his genes down a generation, we can't help it. The only difference nowadays is we have a mind, but i'm speaking purely genetically.
- A man CAN mate with several women in a short period of time; it's therefore unmanly to be needy, choosers are not beggars. Although persistance does show you will make an effort to get to her, getting on your knees can make you seem weak, it could make you sweet in times when that's what she's looking for, but she always has her friends for that too. It's all about the timing, so to start with her just be overly cheeky.
- http://fastseduction.com/guide/01_The_Basic_Rules/3seconds.shtml
- It's not enough to understand it, it must be applied in every communication; if a conversation is not instantaneously (within 3 seconds) struck with the target, then you're not going to do anything anyways, and don't consider it as a failure: nothing happened, so it was more like inactivity. Humans must however move, as long as they're alive.
Some NEG-hits of note
Here's a list of NEG hits i've noted from several sites or come up with. Have some other ones? please post them in comments, also if you've tried some comment too.
One thing i noticed after reading a long list of them and just walking around looking at chicks is that it's much more spontaneous to come up with negs.
Chicks also talk a lot, and they are emotional in their speech, so sometimes logic evades them and you can play on what they might say that is ILLOGICAL because of that, turning it into a subtle dis. She'll try to explain it in a different way, just act like you don't care/understand, she will persist until she feels understood.
1.
Jason: Are those nails real?
HB9: No
Jason: Oh. Well at least they look nice.
2.
Jason: You're pretty dark is that tan real?
HB9: No I went tanning.
Jason: Oh. Well at least it looks real.
3.
HB9: Do you like my new haircut?
Jason: Yeah I like it little messy on top. (If it's straight)
4.
HB9: Do you like my new haircut?
Jason: Yeah I like the left site. (If her hair is different no each side)
5.
HB9: Hey let's go get some ice cream!
Jason: Hell yeah let's do it. I like a girl who's not afraid to gain some pounds.
6.
Jason: Cool shoes. My mom has a pair just like that.
7.
Jason: Mm that perfume smells good. I think my mom has that same one.
8.
HB9: Do you like my new purse?
Jason: Yeah that one's really popular. A lot of girls at my school have that one.
9.
Jason: Hey there is this girl in my class who has that same shirt!
10.
HB9: Hey check out my new watch.
Jason: Oh yeah I really like that one. My cousin has the same one!
11.
Jason: What did ya buy?
HB9: I bought a new shirt.
Jason: Cool lemme see it.
HB9: Here.
Jason: Oh nice. My moms got one just like it.
12.
Jason: That's really cute how your nose wiggles when you talk.
13.
Jason: Is that your real hair color?
HB9: No it's dyed.
Jason: Oh. Well at least it looks good.
14.
Jason: I like your make-up job.
15.
Jason: I like the color of your eyes.
HB9: Hehe thanks. They're contacts.
Jason: Oh. Well they look nice.
16:
Jason: Hey cool cell phone. This girl in my class has the same one.
17:
HB9: Do you think I'm fat?
Jason: No but I like it when I can pinch a little here. (And then pinch her stomach)
18:
Jason: Hey weren't you wearing the same outfit the other day?
19:
Jason: You have something in your teeth.
20:
Jason: Hey nice outfit! I like that better than the one you wore last time.
21:
Jason: How old are you?
HB9: I'm __
Jason: Oh. You look older.
22.
Jason: Nice jeans.
HB9: Thanks
Jason: They make your ass look small. (I would suggest this only after a few dates!)
HB9: Oh.. Thanks.
23.
Jason: Nice breasts are they real?
HB9: No
Jason: Oh.. At least they look real. (At the strip club)
24.
Jason: You have big feet for a girl but those shoes look good on you.
HB9: Oh... Thanks.
25.
Jason: Hey I like this CD.
HB9: Oh thanks.
Jason: Yeah my grandma has this same one.
One thing i noticed after reading a long list of them and just walking around looking at chicks is that it's much more spontaneous to come up with negs.
Chicks also talk a lot, and they are emotional in their speech, so sometimes logic evades them and you can play on what they might say that is ILLOGICAL because of that, turning it into a subtle dis. She'll try to explain it in a different way, just act like you don't care/understand, she will persist until she feels understood.
- those are beautiful glasses, you get all your goggles at home depot?
- this your first date? (ex. Use on two girls sitting @ having a drink)
- nice shoes, what are you 4 feet tall usually?(high heels)
- I didn't know rolex made plastic watches
- that's nice, buy that new?
- Excu... did you just grab my asS?
- I could marry a woman like you. Yah, i'd divorce a week later and take half of your money
- can't you come up with something more original to say
- Stop it already, would you just go buy me a drink
- you just ruined everything, i used to be a little bit attracted to you but you still got a lotta work to do (chick complaining about one of her superficial *flaws*)
1.
Jason: Are those nails real?
HB9: No
Jason: Oh. Well at least they look nice.
2.
Jason: You're pretty dark is that tan real?
HB9: No I went tanning.
Jason: Oh. Well at least it looks real.
3.
HB9: Do you like my new haircut?
Jason: Yeah I like it little messy on top. (If it's straight)
4.
HB9: Do you like my new haircut?
Jason: Yeah I like the left site. (If her hair is different no each side)
5.
HB9: Hey let's go get some ice cream!
Jason: Hell yeah let's do it. I like a girl who's not afraid to gain some pounds.
6.
Jason: Cool shoes. My mom has a pair just like that.
7.
Jason: Mm that perfume smells good. I think my mom has that same one.
8.
HB9: Do you like my new purse?
Jason: Yeah that one's really popular. A lot of girls at my school have that one.
9.
Jason: Hey there is this girl in my class who has that same shirt!
10.
HB9: Hey check out my new watch.
Jason: Oh yeah I really like that one. My cousin has the same one!
11.
Jason: What did ya buy?
HB9: I bought a new shirt.
Jason: Cool lemme see it.
HB9: Here.
Jason: Oh nice. My moms got one just like it.
12.
Jason: That's really cute how your nose wiggles when you talk.
13.
Jason: Is that your real hair color?
HB9: No it's dyed.
Jason: Oh. Well at least it looks good.
14.
Jason: I like your make-up job.
15.
Jason: I like the color of your eyes.
HB9: Hehe thanks. They're contacts.
Jason: Oh. Well they look nice.
16:
Jason: Hey cool cell phone. This girl in my class has the same one.
17:
HB9: Do you think I'm fat?
Jason: No but I like it when I can pinch a little here. (And then pinch her stomach)
18:
Jason: Hey weren't you wearing the same outfit the other day?
19:
Jason: You have something in your teeth.
20:
Jason: Hey nice outfit! I like that better than the one you wore last time.
21:
Jason: How old are you?
HB9: I'm __
Jason: Oh. You look older.
22.
Jason: Nice jeans.
HB9: Thanks
Jason: They make your ass look small. (I would suggest this only after a few dates!)
HB9: Oh.. Thanks.
23.
Jason: Nice breasts are they real?
HB9: No
Jason: Oh.. At least they look real. (At the strip club)
24.
Jason: You have big feet for a girl but those shoes look good on you.
HB9: Oh... Thanks.
25.
Jason: Hey I like this CD.
HB9: Oh thanks.
Jason: Yeah my grandma has this same one.
Saturday, November 05, 2005
Beautiful lady!
For males, my friend claimed a *large jaw* was attractive as it was a reflection of dominance. I disagreed, i didn't have much palpable proof on hand except logic so i tried to argue against him, i however was convinced that chin size was irrelevant (thinking of other male models than brad pitt who actually were highly ranked).
I know have a bit more proof from the article, what i told him that day was that a fair-skin was important, and i agreed on his argument of symmetry, but the large jaw was probably just a way to expose the fair skin if that is the case, however if the skin is not fair, we may not come to the same conclusion.
"Females, however, have a preference for males who look more mature -- generally heart-shaped, small-chinned faces with full lips and fair skin. But during menstruation, females prefer a soft-featured male to a masculine one. Indeed, researchers found that female perceptions of beauty actually change throughout the month."
Also concerning the jaw:
"When viewing profiles, both males and females prefer a face in which the forehead and jaw are in vertical alignment. Altogether, the preference for youthful and even infant-like, features, especially by menstruating women, suggest people with these features have more long-term potential as mates as well as an increased level of reproductive fitness."
As for the WHR i mentioned (cited my professor actually) apparently that is only a byproduct of western culture:
"Psychologists at Newcastle University in England have shown that an indigenous people located in southeast Peru, who have had little contact with the Western world, actually have a preference for high WHRs. These psychologists assert that a general preference for low WHRs is a byproduct of Western culture."
Other interesting quotes:
"In society, attractive people tend to be more intelligent, better adjusted, and more popular. This is described as the halo effect - due to the perfection associated with angels. Research shows attractive people also have more occupational success and more dating experience than their unattractive counterparts. One theory behind this halo effect is that it is accurate -- attractive people are indeed more successful."
"Aronson suggests, based on the self-fulfilling prophecy that people who feel they are attractive - though not necessarily rated as such - are just as successful as their counterparts who are judged to be good-looking."
I'd just like to say about the first quote the part of it that claims attractive people have more dating success, that's not quite true, i would reform that sentence to make it say people with more dating experience, usually look more attractive. It's generally true that when we see a dominant male on television portrayed as a sort of pimp with harem of women following him along we end up considering him as a standard for attractiveness. Now if that enters into the criterion of beauty, i doubt so. But like the article claims attraction is not only beauty and personality (which itself does have social determinants) is important too.
Also i find sometimes that subtle assymetry, such as Britanny Murphy has (i notice it especially in her role in sin city), can only add to charm. (Makes me wanna fuck her wits outta her).
I know have a bit more proof from the article, what i told him that day was that a fair-skin was important, and i agreed on his argument of symmetry, but the large jaw was probably just a way to expose the fair skin if that is the case, however if the skin is not fair, we may not come to the same conclusion.
"Females, however, have a preference for males who look more mature -- generally heart-shaped, small-chinned faces with full lips and fair skin. But during menstruation, females prefer a soft-featured male to a masculine one. Indeed, researchers found that female perceptions of beauty actually change throughout the month."
Also concerning the jaw:
"When viewing profiles, both males and females prefer a face in which the forehead and jaw are in vertical alignment. Altogether, the preference for youthful and even infant-like, features, especially by menstruating women, suggest people with these features have more long-term potential as mates as well as an increased level of reproductive fitness."
As for the WHR i mentioned (cited my professor actually) apparently that is only a byproduct of western culture:
"Psychologists at Newcastle University in England have shown that an indigenous people located in southeast Peru, who have had little contact with the Western world, actually have a preference for high WHRs. These psychologists assert that a general preference for low WHRs is a byproduct of Western culture."
Other interesting quotes:
"In society, attractive people tend to be more intelligent, better adjusted, and more popular. This is described as the halo effect - due to the perfection associated with angels. Research shows attractive people also have more occupational success and more dating experience than their unattractive counterparts. One theory behind this halo effect is that it is accurate -- attractive people are indeed more successful."
"Aronson suggests, based on the self-fulfilling prophecy that people who feel they are attractive - though not necessarily rated as such - are just as successful as their counterparts who are judged to be good-looking."
I'd just like to say about the first quote the part of it that claims attractive people have more dating success, that's not quite true, i would reform that sentence to make it say people with more dating experience, usually look more attractive. It's generally true that when we see a dominant male on television portrayed as a sort of pimp with harem of women following him along we end up considering him as a standard for attractiveness. Now if that enters into the criterion of beauty, i doubt so. But like the article claims attraction is not only beauty and personality (which itself does have social determinants) is important too.
Also i find sometimes that subtle assymetry, such as Britanny Murphy has (i notice it especially in her role in sin city), can only add to charm. (Makes me wanna fuck her wits outta her).
On beauty
This follows from a discussion i had with a friend. I can only find qualifications of beauty for women, and that makes much sense, for some reason we ended up talking about the possibility of qualifying *beauty* in men, and how to do that when you're a heterosexual man yourself. Frankly i can say had several events not taken place the question of how *beautiful* another man is would never come to my mind, except if i were to compliment him.
"Looking Good: The Psychology and Biology of Beauty
Charles Feng
Human Biology, Stanford University
feng@jyi.org
Suggested Reading
Aronson, Elliot. 1999. The Social Animal. New York: Worth Publishers, Inc.
Cowley, Geoffrey. The biology of beauty. Newsweek. 1996 (127): 60-67.
Dion, Karen. 2002. Cultural perspectives on facial attractiveness. Facial Attractiveness: Evolutionary, Cognitive, and Social Perspectives. Eds. Rhodes, Gillian, Zebrowitz, Leslie. Westport, CT: Ablex Publishing.
Hill, C.T. et al. Breakups before marriage: the end of 103 affairs. Journal of Social Issues. 1976 (32): 147-168.
Langlois, J.H. et al. Maxims or myths of beauty? A meta-analytic and theoretical review. Psychological Bulletin. 2000 (126): 390-423.
Little, A and D. Perrett. Putting beauty back in the eye of the beholder. Psychologist. 2002 (15): 28-32.
Manning, JT, RL Trivers, D Singh, R Thornhill. The mystery of female beauty. Nature. 1999 (399): 214-215.
Moller, A.P. and R. Thornhill. Bilateral symmetry and sexual selection: a meta-analysis. American Naturalist. 1998(151): 174-192.
Perrett, David et al. Symmetry and human facial attractiveness. Evolution & Human Behavior. 1999 (20): 295-307.
Tovee, MJ and PL Cornelissen. Is beauty in the eye of the beholder? Nature. 1998 (396): 321-322.
Zebrowitz, Leslie. 1997. Reading Faces: Window to the Soul? Boulder, Colorado: Westview Press."
Article extracted from: http://www.jyi.org/volumes/volume6/issue6/features/feng.html
"Looking Good: The Psychology and Biology of Beauty
Charles Feng
Human Biology, Stanford University
feng@jyi.org
In ancient Greece, Helen of Troy, the instigator of the Trojan War, was the paragon of beauty, exuding a physical
 |
| Model Cindy Crawford, an example of symmetry Image courtesy of www.cindy.com |
brilliance that would put Cindy Crawford to shame. Indeed, she was the toast of Athens, celebrated not for her kindness or her intellect, but for her physical perfection. But why did the Greek men find Helen, and other beautiful women, so intoxicating?
In an attempt to answer this question, the philosophers of the day devoted a great deal of time to this conundrum. Plato wrote of so-called "golden proportions," in which, amongst other things, the width of an ideal face would be two-thirds its length, while a nose would be no longer than the distance between the eyes. Plato's golden proportions, however, haven't quite held up to the rigors of modern psychological and biological research -- though there is credence in the ancient Greeks' attempts to determine a fundamental symmetry that humans find attractive.
Symmetry is attractive to the human eye
Today, this symmetry has been scientifically proven to be inherently attractive to the human eye. It has been defined not with proportions, but rather with similarity between the left and right sides of the face Thus, the Greeks were only partially correct.
By applying the stringent conditions of the scientific method, researchers now believe symmetry is the answer the Greeks were looking for.
| By applying the stringent conditions of the scientific method, researchers now believe symmetry is the answer the Greeks were looking for. |
Babies spend more time staring at pictures of symmetric individuals than they do at photos of asymmetric ones. Moreover, when several faces are averaged to create a composite -- thus covering up the asymmetries that any one individual may have -- a panel of judges deemed the composite more attractive than the individual pictures.
Victor Johnston of New Mexico State University, for example, utilizes a program called FacePrints, which shows viewers facial images of variable attractiveness. The viewers then rate the pictures on a beauty scale from one to nine. In what is akin to digital Darwinism, the pictures with the best ratings are merged together, while the less attractive photos are weeded out. Each trial ends when a viewer deems the composite a 10. All the perfect 10s are super-symmetric.
Scientists say that the preference for symmetry is a highly evolved trait seen in many different animals. Female swallows, for example, prefer males with longer and more symmetric tails, while female zebra finches mate with males with symmetrically colored leg bands.
 |
| Female zebra finches prefer males with symmetric colorings. Image courtesy of www.finchworld.com/zebra.html |
The rationale behind symmetry preference in both humans and animals is that symmetric individuals have a higher mate-value; scientists believe that this symmetry is equated with a strong immune system. Thus, beauty is indicative of more robust genes, improving the likelihood that an individual's offspring will survive. This evolutionary theory is supported by research showing that standards of attractiveness are similar across cultures.
According to a University of Louisville study, when shown pictures of different individuals, Asians, Latinos, and whites from 13 different countries all had the same general preferences when rating others as attractive -- that is those that are the most symmetric.
Beauty beyond symmetry
However, John Manning of the University of Liverpool in England cautions against over-generalization, especially by Western scientists. "Darwin thought that there were few universals of physical beauty because there was much variance in appearance and preference across human groups," Manning explained in email interview. For example, Chinese men used to prefer women with small feet. In Shakespearean England, ankles were the rage. In some African tribal cultures, men like women who insert large discs in their lips.
Indeed, "we need more cross-cultural studies to show that what is true in Westernized societies is also true in traditional groups," Manning said his 1999 article.
Aside from symmetry, males in Western cultures generally prefer females with a small jaw, a small nose, large eyes, and defined cheekbones - features often described as "baby faced", that resemble an infant's. Females, however, have a preference for males who look more mature -- generally heart-shaped, small-chinned faces with full lips and fair skin. But during menstruation, females prefer a soft-featured male to a masculine one. Indeed, researchers found that female perceptions of beauty actually change throughout the month.
 |
| Sizing up the wasit-to-hip ratio: In general, men prefer women with a low WHR. Image courtesy of health.discovery.com |
When viewing profiles, both males and females prefer a face in which the forehead and jaw are in vertical alignment. Altogether, the preference for youthful and even infant-like, features, especially by menstruating women, suggest people with these features have more long-term potential as mates as well as an increased level of reproductive fitness.
Scientists have also found that the body's proportions play an important role in perceptions of beauty as well. In general, men have a preference for women with low waist-to-hip ratios (WHRs), that is, more adipose is deposited on the hips and buttocks than on the waist. Research shows that women with high WHRs (whose bodies are more tube-shaped) are more likely to suffer from health maladies, including infertility and diabetes. However, as is often the case, there are exceptions to the rule.
Psychologists at Newcastle University in England have shown that an indigenous people located in southeast Peru, who have had little contact with the Western world, actually have a preference for high WHRs. These psychologists assert that a general preference for low WHRs is a byproduct of Western culture.
Beauty and choosing a mate
Psychological research suggests that people generally choose mates with a similar level of attractiveness. The evolutionary theory is that by mating with someone who has similar genes, one's own genes are conserved. Moreover, a person's demeanor and personality also influences how others perceive his or her beauty.
Psychological research suggests that people generally choose mates with a similar level of attractiveness. |
In one study, 70% of college students deemed an instructor physically attractive when he acted in a friendly manner, while only 30% found him attractive when he was cold and distant. Indeed, when surveyed for attributes in selecting a mate, both males and females felt kindness and an exciting personality were more important in a mate than good looks. Thus, to a certain degree, beauty truly is in the eye of the beholder.
Douglas Yu of the University of East Anglia in Norwich, England, agrees. "It's true by definition. Beauty is always judged by the receiver," he says. At the same time, he says in an email "there is inter-observer concordance, a measure of objectivity," so that individual perceptions of beauty, factoring in other characteristics such as personality and intelligence, can often be aggregated to form a consensus opinion. One of the offshoots of Yu's work in ethnobiology was a piece in Nature in 1998 that showed that the hourglass-body standard of beauty in women, previously thought to be `universally' preferred, was in fact likely swayed by advertising.
The halo effect
In society, attractive people tend to be more intelligent, better adjusted, and more popular. This is described as the halo effect - due to the perfection associated with angels. Research shows attractive people also have more occupational success and more dating experience than their unattractive counterparts. One theory behind this halo effect is that it is accurate -- attractive people are indeed more successful.
| Research shows attractive people also have more occupational success and more dating experience than their unattractive counterparts. |
An alternative explanation for attractive people achieving more in life is that we automatically categorize others before having an opportunity to evaluate their personalities, based on cultural stereotypes which say attractive people must be intrinsically good, and ugly people must be inherently bad. But Elliot Aronson, a social psychologist at Stanford University, believes self-fulfilling prophecies - in which a person't confident self-perception, further perpetuated by healthy feedback from others - may play a role in success as well. Aronson suggests, based on the self-fulfilling prophecy that people who feel they are attractive - though not necessarily rated as such - are just as successful as their counterparts who are judged to be good-looking.
Whatever the reason, the notion that attractiveness correlates with success still rings true. Yet beauty is not always advantageous, for beautiful people, particularly attractive women, tend to be perceived as more materialistic, snobbish, and vain.
For better or worse, the bottom line is that research shows beauty matters; it pervades society and affects how we choose loved ones. Thus, striving to appear attractive may not be such a vain endeavor after all. This isn't to say plastic surgery is necessarily the answer. Instead, lead a healthy lifestyle that will in turn make you a happier person.
Suggested Reading
Aronson, Elliot. 1999. The Social Animal. New York: Worth Publishers, Inc.
Cowley, Geoffrey. The biology of beauty. Newsweek. 1996 (127): 60-67.
Dion, Karen. 2002. Cultural perspectives on facial attractiveness. Facial Attractiveness: Evolutionary, Cognitive, and Social Perspectives. Eds. Rhodes, Gillian, Zebrowitz, Leslie. Westport, CT: Ablex Publishing.
Hill, C.T. et al. Breakups before marriage: the end of 103 affairs. Journal of Social Issues. 1976 (32): 147-168.
Langlois, J.H. et al. Maxims or myths of beauty? A meta-analytic and theoretical review. Psychological Bulletin. 2000 (126): 390-423.
Little, A and D. Perrett. Putting beauty back in the eye of the beholder. Psychologist. 2002 (15): 28-32.
Manning, JT, RL Trivers, D Singh, R Thornhill. The mystery of female beauty. Nature. 1999 (399): 214-215.
Moller, A.P. and R. Thornhill. Bilateral symmetry and sexual selection: a meta-analysis. American Naturalist. 1998(151): 174-192.
Perrett, David et al. Symmetry and human facial attractiveness. Evolution & Human Behavior. 1999 (20): 295-307.
Tovee, MJ and PL Cornelissen. Is beauty in the eye of the beholder? Nature. 1998 (396): 321-322.
Zebrowitz, Leslie. 1997. Reading Faces: Window to the Soul? Boulder, Colorado: Westview Press."
Article extracted from: http://www.jyi.org/volumes/volume6/issue6/features/feng.html
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